A whine and complain thread

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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby loofah » Tue May 03, 2011 12:40 am

should we start another telephone pictionary?
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby chrismachine » Tue May 03, 2011 12:44 am

Well the left made MAJOR gains in Canada's National election, but it was mostly at the expense of the center and unfortunately had the side-effect of delivering a majority win to the right. I can only hope the NDP make a way more effective official opposition than the bumbling Liberals...
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby Binkatron5000 » Tue May 03, 2011 1:07 am

RARARrarararagh our election system is so weird :(. Good on NDP for their huge gains though
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby jvcc » Tue May 03, 2011 1:49 am

loofah wrote:should we start another telephone pictionary?

YES

Sorry about your politics, Canada. I'm sure it can't be any more fucked up than the system in the US, though.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby chrismachine » Tue May 03, 2011 5:21 pm

Do you vote for the person you want to run your country, even if you don't live in his/her neighbourhood? Does your leader have to run his ideas past a group of people he doesn't have the power to demote or excommunicate before he puts them into action? If you answered yes to any of these questions, you are a step ahead. No, I don't really hate the system that much, but I sure do wish that we could vote for our area representation independent of our national figurehead somehow.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby MysticalDescent » Tue May 03, 2011 5:43 pm

loofah wrote:should we start another telephone pictionary?


I've actually been tossing that idea around in my head for a while. I think it'd be good to leave sign ups open for a little while to get as many regulars and occasional visitors as possible involved and then get it going. I've no idea how many would be able to get involved.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby James » Wed May 04, 2011 4:13 am

For some time I've suspected my mobile phone is haunted. Every time I interact with it there's a chance it will start playing music out of the speaker as well as doing what I actually want it to do. That includes plugging headphones in. It doesn't happen very often, but it's enough to put me a little on edge when using it in public places.

(To be clear, I don't actually believe in ghosts.)

((Clear as in transparent like a ghost.))
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby Skimba » Wed May 04, 2011 9:42 am

I wish my vote actually counted.

In other news:
Telepictionaryphone-a-thon????? I'm down. Or is it up? meh...I'll participate.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby sum yun gai » Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 pm

chrismachine wrote:Do you vote for the person you want to run your country


actually, because of the fucked-upedness of the electoral college, we don't directly elect the president either...
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby jvcc » Wed May 04, 2011 11:43 pm

Speaking of voting, isn't an important vote taking in place in Britain sometime soon (possibly today)? I have a vague idea that it's to do with changing the electoral system, but I know nothing of the specifics. I think if the majority vote "yes" it will mean more coalition governments. Or maybe it was "no". When trying to find news about it on the internet, I came across an article about how the UK referendum is not going to affect Canada. The lack of an affect that something is going to have on another thing doesn't really seem newsworthy to me, but it brings everything together nicely. Also, the phrase "do a Clegg" sounds so much like a euphemism I don't know where to begin.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby James » Thu May 05, 2011 3:39 am

Yeah, we're having a referendum on whether to adopt the "alternative vote" electoral system today. It's a preferential voting system, and is supposed to reduce the appeal of tactical voting, but it doesn't eliminate its effectiveness in all scenarios. Reading about Arrow's impossibility theorem has made me a bit depressed about the whole thing, to be honest.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby IanC » Thu May 05, 2011 7:00 am

Nick Clegg is a tuna sandwich. Just want to throw that out there.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby ntw3001 » Thu May 05, 2011 10:30 am

It seems rather as though the new system will replace MPs who are elected without a majority with exactly the same MPs, except now able to pretend they've been elected by a majority. Also, while its supporters claim it will marginalise extremist parties and deny, say, the BNP a chance of getting elected, that's the case anyway. But it does provide an incentive for mainstream parties to chase those voters for their second choice. I rather prefer the 'if you vote BNP, we don't really have to care what you think' system. Of course I haven't made any real study of the system beyond 'basically how it works', so I might just be wrong anyway.

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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby fanelian » Thu May 05, 2011 3:31 pm

I'm very sleepy and I've still got 4 hours to go. dang it.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby jvcc » Thu May 05, 2011 7:20 pm

IanC wrote:Nick Clegg is a tuna sandwich. Just want to throw that out there.

Just because he's been at the forefront of the yes campaign? Because to my understanding during the 2010 general election he was a bit of a nobody, and I look him up now and he's Deputy PM.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby chrismachine » Thu May 05, 2011 10:17 pm

Our PM may not be deputized, but is still a tuna sandwich.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby James » Fri May 06, 2011 5:12 am

jvcc wrote:
IanC wrote:Nick Clegg is a tuna sandwich. Just want to throw that out there.

Just because he's been at the forefront of the yes campaign? Because to my understanding during the 2010 general election he was a bit of a nobody, and I look him up now and he's Deputy PM.

A lot of people feel the Lib Dems have betrayed their voters, as by forming a coalition with the Conservatives they basically gave them an easier path to power, and now they're deferring quite a lot to Conservative policies. It was a difficult situation, though, that probably would have ended up with the Tories in power however they acted. I don't hold the anger at Clegg that some people do, but his actions could easily be seen as confirming the Liberal Democrats' long-held perception as an irrelevance.

Or he might be a Labour supporter angry at him for splitting the left's vote.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby MysticalDescent » Fri May 06, 2011 6:37 am

James wrote:
jvcc wrote:
IanC wrote:Nick Clegg is a tuna sandwich. Just want to throw that out there.

Just because he's been at the forefront of the yes campaign? Because to my understanding during the 2010 general election he was a bit of a nobody, and I look him up now and he's Deputy PM.

A lot of people feel the Lib Dems have betrayed their voters, as by forming a coalition with the Conservatives they basically gave them an easier path to power, and now they're deferring quite a lot to Conservative policies. It was a difficult situation, though, that probably would have ended up with the Tories in power however they acted. I don't hold the anger at Clegg that some people do, but his actions could easily be seen as confirming the Liberal Democrats' long-held perception as an irrelevance.

Or he might be a Labour supporter angry at him for splitting the left's vote.


What James said. Also, this image:

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Maybe I'm biased as a student, but from what I've seen of this Government so far, Nick Clegg may as well start all of his speeches with "Hi, I'm Nick Clegg, I said lots of pretty Lib Dem things before the election, but I don't actually have any political principles and, quite frankly, I'm happy to do whatever it takes to get into power, even if it involves doing the exact opposite of what I said I'd do in my manifesto. I don't just mean 'not doing what I said I would' but actually doing the precise opposite of what I said I would. Hell, not even my shiny gold tie that made everybody like me before the General Election works anymore".

I voted no to AV anyway. I can't see any point in changing the system for something that's little more than a sidestep in terms of supposed 'fairness' and that would make Nick Clegg happy. Being naive and half-educated, I might be tempted to muse that if they really wanted to make a more meaningful reform that increased 'fairness', then it would end party politics altogether (as in completely getting rid of political parties). No idea how that would do it, but then you'd ideally end up with a system where MPs actually spend their time in Parliament working for their constituents and voting with the interests of their constituents in mind, rather than toeing the party line and only ever mentioning local issues when it reflects well on their party leader. Hell, the MP for Stoke Central, one of the three MPs elected by Stoke-on-Trent, is bland-but-dashing historian Tristram Hunt, a man with absolutely no links to the area but who's been dumped into the seat because it's a Labour safe seat and they get to have an educated chap in the Commons who'll say whatever the leader of the part wants him to say but with added credibility because he's clever. Fortunately, I belong to the Stoke South constituency, or perhaps it's equally unfortunate because the electorate here would vote for a fox that had been run over several times so long as it had a Labour rosette pinned to it.

I don't know where I'm going with this.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby James » Fri May 06, 2011 6:52 am

I have similar reservations about party politics, but I suspect it might be practically unavoidable. How would you stop informal alliances with all the same compromises from forming? Also, would the prime minister still be a constituency representative leading to a weird situation where he's somehow elected by the MPs without reference to the party system, or would that be separated out entirely? If it weren't, MPs would probably end up getting elected largely on the basis of who they'd support for PM. And then there's the risk of ignoring national and international issues in order to appeal to the local electorate (although I suppose we can hope theyb take some sort of an interest in the world beyond their constituency).

I don't know. Politics.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby jvcc » Fri May 06, 2011 7:21 am

MysticalDescent wrote:No idea how that would do it, but then you'd ideally end up with a system where MPs actually spend their time in Parliament working for their constituents and voting with the interests of their constituents in mind, rather than toeing the party line and only ever mentioning local issues when it reflects well on their party leader.

Sounds a lot like American politics.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby MysticalDescent » Fri May 06, 2011 8:49 am

James wrote:I have similar reservations about party politics, but I suspect it might be practically unavoidable. How would you stop informal alliances with all the same compromises from forming? Also, would the prime minister still be a constituency representative leading to a weird situation where he's somehow elected by the MPs without reference to the party system, or would that be separated out entirely? If it weren't, MPs would probably end up getting elected largely on the basis of who they'd support for PM. And then there's the risk of ignoring national and international issues in order to appeal to the local electorate (although I suppose we can hope theyb take some sort of an interest in the world beyond their constituency).

I don't know. Politics.


I don't know, I've sort of got the image in the back of my mind of how Parliament used to be in the 18th and early 19th Centuries (not that they're a particularly good example of what I'm trying to get at in other aspects), where the reigning monarch would judge which MP would be best able to gather the support of as many other MPs as possible and appoint them as Prime Minister. That's technically how it works now I suppose, except that because of political parties, there's no actual judgement involved, it's just a formality. There would always be informal alliances, people with the same sort of opinions grouping together and so on, but at least they'd be voting in a certain direction because it was what fitted their opinion - and by extension the opinion of most their constituents (sort of) - rather than because the party whip would throw them out of the party if they didn't vote a certain way. I don't know about the other details, I'm just musing really, but that's a very interesting point about the Prime Minister being a constituency representative, and the whole business of international issues. I suppose you could have separate cabinet elections, but then that kind of defeats the object of a Prime Minister being the person able to form a cabinet and retain the support of parliament. I can recall that when Jack Straw was the Foreign Secretary he continued to work in his surgery in his constituency, purely because of that occasion when he caused a bit of controversy over veiled women.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby Skimba » Fri May 06, 2011 10:05 am

*yawn* and I'm out of facon. :(
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby Skimba » Fri May 06, 2011 10:12 am

Tequila and I decided to break up for a bit...but my friend was the bartender last night and decided we should work things out. I have been off a day all week and thought I didn't have to be here at work this morning (It is Saturday? No? Oh crap.). My Vice-president (my "big" boss) is also in the office today. I am functioning, but not all that well. Please, join hands and knock on woods that I am left alone as much as possible today even though it is my own fault.
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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby PonderThis » Fri May 06, 2011 10:47 am

:: thinking good thoughts for Skimba ::

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Re: A whine and complain thread

Postby IanC » Fri May 06, 2011 5:23 pm

Well the Lib Dems lost badly. Thats what happens when you join a coalition with the Tories.


Still, HOW THE fork did the Tories gain seats? GAH. This country. This rickin'-frackin' country....
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