jvcc wrote:

ntw3001 wrote:But what if she cancels, as women do?

There isn't enough eye rolling in the world to effectively summarize my attitude toward this statement.

She's cancelled on him before, can you blame him?

I think you should just tell her, that way the event is the fun and the fun is not contingent on surprising her or her reaction or whatever, and won't depend on her being there if you're worried she'll cancel a second consecutive time.

IanC wrote:

jvcc wrote:

ntw3001 wrote:But what if she cancels, as women do?

There isn't enough eye rolling in the world to effectively summarize my attitude toward this statement.

She's cancelled on him before, can you blame him?

Would you blame him if he had said, "But what is she cancels, as Chinese people do?"

Whether in jest or not, I am not a fan of language that implies that general categories of people act a particular way based on evidence drawn from one representative of that category.

That's cool, this is why I post here. What did we used to talk about before we had tiresome, sanctimonious scolding?

It is very ugly to make negative generalizations about women or any group of people, and I have done nothing wrong in calling attention to it. I've made my position clear and you can choose whether you agree or disagree and act accordingly.

And ChrisM is definitely right that you should tell her.

IanC wrote:

EsBe wrote:A

B?

I think EsBe was kidnapped in the middle of writing his post. Somebody call 911!

It's not really about doing anything wrong, it's just that if you think he was seriously generalizing, he's right to be put off a bit as the comment was clearly tongue-in-cheek, and if you know he wasn't being serious then he has every right to feel like he's having the fun sapped from the part where he's trying to make light of a situation where he's very clearly been having some rather bad luck, and like you're being a huge downer taking this opportunity to stand atop the high ground. It was a mildly off-colour remark poking fun at his personal experiences among friends he should be able to assume won't judge him. I agree with your position, but funny thing, so does he, and I assume he figures everyone would have known that. Finally, if you're making the statement just to be on record in case anyone be persuaded to make future remarks of that nature in life under the false assumption that's ok, it's a bit misguided on top of the fact that there are like 15 readers here.

Here's my last piece of dating advice, Enty: women love a good sense of humor, so try telling your "women cancel plans" joke on an actual date.

If the woman seems offended, uncomfortable, or simply doesn't laugh, assure her that three men on the internet agreed that the joke is perfectly alright. If she still seems resistant, tell her she's being a huge downer and to stop being so sanctimonious.

If there's one thing I know about women, it's that we love jokes based on tired stereotypes about women's negative qualities, especially when they're told by men and have a hint of actual bitterness behind them.

I feel like that it's less the case that you're offering 'advice' and more the case that you're clumsily grasping at a weak opportunity to be patronising and obnoxious. It's disappointing and surprising, because until a couple of months ago I'd considered you to be especially level-headed.

This forum has gone downhill sharply.

I was employing a sarcastic tone because I'm angry at you three.

Regarding advice, though, you've solicited advice on here on how to interact with women. You said something that came across really negatively to me and I don't think it's a stretch to say other women could be annoyed by that comment too. I called you out on it and was summarily scolded for doing so.

Consider whether you want to continue to believe that I'm being sanctimonious, a downer, obnoxious, or whatever the case may be, or whether I have a point when I say that if you say poopcakes like that, there's a chance some women will not like it. Because, honestly, my immediate response when I'd read what you said was that I would never go out on a date with a guy who made that kind of joke.

I just want to take this moment to thank everyone for getting back to whining and complaining. I was starting to think we'd derailed another thread for a moment with all the positivity going on here. On that note.....

I was browsing a blog related to a sports team I sort of follow and one of the guys posted himself surreptitiously taking selfie booty shots of the cheerleaders. As in, here's his face making a sort of triumphant gesture, and a couple of anonymous cheerleader butts behind his face within the frame. He was also proud of his other pics of the cheerleaders walking by his seat. One of the people on the site commented he was being creepy and I agreed but got a bit self-righteous about it. I feel like I should probably apologize to the blog for being self-righteous, but I don't think I should apologize for calling out the creep for being a creep. I also think sometimes that it shouldn't be my place to criticize someone's creepy behavior, but then again if I don't this person will continue to skirt the edge until someone forcefully brings it to his attention.

There's simply no way you can't see the difference between stuff someone would joke about on here regarding their situation and stuff someone would say to a person while in that situation. If I say something about you that people have said about women, consider that perhaps I still just mean it to be about you.

I don't think it's ever a good idea to make negative generalizations about people groups, even as jokes. I also think that a member of that group is totally justified in complaining when it happens, and should be listened to. That is my perspective.

Even if you disagree with that, though, there are still practical benefits to avoiding making negative generalizations about women when you want to date a woman, as some women might share my perspective.

To test this, I solicited the opinion of two of my friends. I didn't want to share the whole post, to maintain other people's anonymity on here, but they got the context of the quote itself and the factors that Ian and Chrism cited as counterpoints (that ntw3001 had been stood up, that he's had bad luck with dating recently, and that it may have been a joke).

J's response was negative to neutral:



A's response was negative:



So, Enty, as far as I see it, there are only positive outcomes that can come from this discussion for you. You can decide not to change your position and you have other forum members to back you up on that and agree that you're right. Or you can decide to not make negative generalizations about women, even if you're joking, either because you agree it's not really a great thing to do or simply because it probably won't benefit you in interacting with women.

But don't worry, in either case I'm definitely not offering you any more advice on how to talk about or interact with women.

I think the important takeaway is that both your friends would have gone out with enty (or his surrogate in this situation) despite the comment, assuming they thought he meant nothing by it. This is how nuance among friends and near acquaintances is supposed to work.

I think we can all appreciate that enty was making a (not tasteful) joke, just as we can all appreciate that you did not find it funny at all. It does not mean enty is a horrible human being, nor does it mean your feelings are invalid. It simply means that you found enty's terrible joke more terrible than it was meant to be, and you've made your feelings quite clear on the issue by now.

Also, your signature is horribly ironic given the context of the conversation over the last page-ish.

Have you ever seen that experiment where they compare two people's Facebook pages to show how radically different the views to which they get exposed tend to be based on their chosen friends and the things they look at and like over time, and how that subsequently skews their baseline for how things work in the general population? You asking your friends is kind of like that, and I don't think people who take jokes as serious affronts would be his type, just based on my experience. I understand why this issue is important to you, but this was totally not a hill you needed to die on. I still find it hard to believe you think any of that was not tongue in cheek, and where the impropriety of it was entirely assumed and part of the joke. If you do see that, then your reaction is an overreaction, even if you feel that way. You must hate a lot of standup comedy.

Jvcc: Cool, cool. Would you be interested to know how many guys you have fucked who have made similar comments amongst friends? Above one.

So anyway, today went ok! She said good morning and asked me what my plans for the day were. I said I'd been planning to go and gaze upon the cherry blossoms at Shinjyuku. She said that than was her plan for tomorrow, and perhaps an alternative plan for the day could be arranged.

So, we spent the day at the Imperial Palace, gazing upon the cherry blossoms. We enjoyed a coule of hours of karaoke, and then went to her favoured Chinese restaurant and ate some good good food.

After! We went to meet some friends of mine at Yokohama. Delightful it was; fun was had. Some folks left, we were left with an exceedingly adoring couple, so we moved to a different bar.

In this bar! We spoke for some time. In conversation, she seemed quite insistent that I wanted to bang the new Western girl (she's lovely, but whatever). I tried to drive the conversation from this, but she seeemed quite insistent. 'Oh no, you love her', she said, turning her eyes downards and supping upon her drink. After some time, it was necessarily for me to awkwardly end this line of conversation. 'I don't know why you think I like her', I said. 'I'm more interested in you'. This was dragged out of me,and was not something I had wanted to say. But seriously, how many times does a fellow have to explain that he is not interested in each individual girl he has been seen speaking to that night.

Boom. Night over. I'm not interested, she said. I find you attractive and engaging, but I'm still in love with an objectionable person (sic). I'm crazy'. Uh, okay. That's a shame, but I felt like we got on well. The fact you greeted me every morning and night made me suspect that maybe you were thinking about me. I had been under the impression that you cared. 'Is that not just being friendly? I think you're just in a new place and you're lonely. What were you even on Tinder for?' Well, I mean. We discussed previously how we appreciated meeting someone on Tinder who wasn't just looking to fork. It was nice to find someone one could talk to. So what was I on Tinder for? Well, actually, it was in order to speak to people I could meet and then like.

'What was your end goal here?' Well what kind of a question is that. We'd hang out, and get along, and maybe in the future we'd be a couple, or maybe not. How ridiculous. What does she want from Tinder? From what I gather, this is essentially what she wanted from Tinder.

So, yeah. She's in love with someone she also hates, and I am very sweet and sufficiently attractive but also, yet again, not correct for reasons which will not be disclosed. Obviously, her decision is correct and it's not acceptable for me to feel any frustration as a result. I am unworthy of happiness, and it's necessary (nay moral) for me to cease inflicting myself upon those who may not desire my society. I can only apologise for the reprehensible things I have said and done.

ntw3001 wrote:Jvcc: Cool, cool. Would you be interested to know how many guys you have fucked who have made similar comments amongst friends? Above one.

Oh come on, what's that meant to achieve? Is it meant to prove a point (it doesn't), or are you just attempting to hurt JVCC's feelings (unnecessary)? You two can disagree about this thing and still be civil. Not vicious.

I'm sorry to hear things aren't going as planned with you and the Tinder woman. Of course you can feel frustrated by all this lack of clarity. Just try not to let it make you bitter. I suppose that's pretty useless advice, but whatever.

I think (think mind you, I can't mind read after all) that he is just frustrated and is hitting out over Jvcc response to his cancel comment. Which is perfectly fair. Her response I mean. And him getting frustrated. Just you know, don't hit out at people that have otherwise tried to help you.

I should know since I've done a lot of that.

Ok, apologies to jvcc. I was drunk. Sorry.

So sorry for your friendzoned end to the evening Enty. At least it was fun up until then. I think you have every right to feel frustrated and lead-on. That is, of course, coming from an American culture point of view. I really don't know how other cultures would view that behavior, but that's just my take on it. It's in no one's benefit (despite what all romantic movies suggest) for one to yearn for someone and get nothing reciprocated. But if you can get over the hump of it all and still enjoy being friends, then why not.

On a personal whine and complain, I've been getting heartburn every day recently. I've actually cut back on drinking and cannot pinpoint any specific triggers other than food in general, and I love food.

I feel terrible. Felt a bit light headed at work this morning, get home and still feel ill. Come this evening I've been sick and scared myself due to the colour, ended up sleeping several hours and had to clean in sick for tomorrow. First sick day since I started work, but there's no way I could go in after been sick like that, not when I have to handle raw fruit/veggies.

For me, I think the helpless feeling of the whole thing is the worst part. Feel better

For me, I think the helpless feeling of the whole thing is the worst part. Feel better

Feeling a fair bit better now. Spent most of the day lounging around on the sofa playing video games. Elder Scrolls Online till the server went down for maintenance and then i started Heavy Rain. Ho boy, depressing as fork. (im years late with that one i know, though im playing the PS4 port)