Beating heart on the internet

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Beating heart on the internet

Postby kvn8907 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:46 pm

Aw darn.
I've gone and pissed off another moderator again.

What is it with me and forums?

No, not on Spamusement this time, thank goodness. This time it's a Facebook group, "Jimmie's Awesome Collection of Funny Pictures", and apparently, I pissed of Jimmie. It's a group where people post pictures that they find funny. How do you piss anyone off doing that? You tell me and we'll both know. And it doesn't even seem like I pissed off anyone besides him. But still, he's admin, and he's the one that holds all the cards, and me, I'm just a member. In fact, he's almost completely inactive in his own group he made, making his sudden activity and message to me even more out of the blue. In a message to me, he called me a "troll" (déjà vu) and threatened banning.

I don't know, I hate complaining threads, and I never even look at them myself. It's just that I like that group, and would hate to get kicked out based on the animosity of one person, no matter how powerful that person is. And more than Spamusement (Chrono, IanC, and that furry guy whose name I can never quite remember got in tiffs with me in turn, but I don't think I was ever in danger of banning on this forum. Who's our moderator anyway?) I'm getting flashbacks from ED, when for two days I was banned for no reason simply because one of the users wanted to ban me.

Maybe I don't respect authority (though there are some teachers, parents, managers, moderators, and superiors that I do like, but maybe that's just because they don't seem to lord over me). Maybe I just talk too much. I don't know. I suppose the strangest part is how the internet's always really affected me. Whenever there's a crisis on the internet, I get really agitated, really nervous, and can't hardly think straight until it's resolved. When I was banned on ED, I spent hours on mIRC (first time I'd gone to the ED channel there) trying to contact someone who could unban me on the site. When someone called me a retard on Spamusement several months ago, I got all hot and bothered (that's sort of my Berserk Button, I suppose, especially if someone really means it), and getting the Facebook message from Jimmie turned my entire evening upside down. Heck, some internet crises in the past have even made me weep in real life.

So, what about you? I'm not sure if I've asked this before, but do things on the internet tend to really affect you? Maybe I'm just the odd one out, but I feel like when I'm on the internet, I'm not so much sitting in a chair typing and clicking away as I am putting my entire self on the internet, with all the potential vulnerabilities that entails.
according to the swear filter, kvn8907 wrote:Too bad the sort of get togethers I go to are generally too polite to use the term "fork"


PonderThis wrote:Watch it, slydon, I think he's just trying to butter you up.

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Null » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:25 pm

On the internet, secondary levels of communication that people have come to rely on (inflection, emphasis, body language, facial expression) are completely absent, hence why many communications are misconstrued.

You might want to ask Jimmie why he banned you. Maybe it was all a misunderstanding or something.

Also, the internet is not real life.

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Portals » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:26 pm

I certainly feel pretty crappy when someone disses one of my comics. Also, if I somehow got permabanned from Spamusement, I'd probably wallow in depression and shame for a few weeks. However, there are always new things to do, and the internet is ever-changing.

Kvn, I'd suggest looking over the post that pissed Jimmie off. Try to see if it has something stupid or annoying. Maybe you insulted something he posted. The thing I've noticed you do is that you tend to stretch a point a bit too far (see 'how is ur life going' for the most major example) and point out your own (or others') ignorance. Try to look over what you're typing before you post to make sure it won't bug people, and imagine if someone was saying it to you.

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Nik » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:07 pm

As some members of this forum know, I left my two forums prior because of extreme hostility toward me. I was never banned, but I had to make the decision both times because I was getting very upset by it on a level I assume you know, Kvn. I stayed here because it never has happened here.

And one of the things you should know is, that while Stevenf is the admin and PonderThis and I are global mods with banning powers, we ONLY ban spambots. That's it. The agreement under which we were both given our powers is that we will not use it against people. There isn't any moderation here unless the person requests it on their own behalf. And that's why we get along so well here. Or maybe it's because we do. Either way, people only leave because they want to, not because a moderator or admin tells him or her to leave.

And yeah, some people on this forum have been or are utter morons or people of dubious character. It happens. And either those people leave or tone it down and acclimate.

So, that's basically it in a nutshell.
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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby kvn8907 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:22 pm

Portals wrote:Kvn, I'd suggest looking over the post that pissed Jimmie off. Try to see if it has something stupid or annoying. Maybe you insulted something he posted.


That's just the thing that makes it so...oh I don't even know what adjective I'm looking for, but "weird" comes close enough. He's practically inactive on his own group. He doesn't post picture or videos or links, he never comments on anything, he's never on the discussion boards, and never posts on the walls. The group bears his name, but he practically doesn't even exist, except for some minor activity from time to time. His exact words were "I've gotten a significant amount of complaints from the members about you." And yet, I'm rather well liked by most of the members. I'm friends with at least a dozen of the regular posters, and when I told someone there about it, he said "Jimmie must be retarded. You should be an admin." and "Well captain if you go down I'm coming with you." (possibly some of the nicest things anyone's ever said to me on the internet) But then, much of his message, especially the second one he sent, are personal insults that really sound like they're coming to him, and no one else. He didn't say anything like "I like you, but other people think...". No, he launched direct tirade, saying "you give out an air of superiority in your comments, often going to great lengths to showcase your intelligence whilst belittling that of the other members. You oftentimes come across very rudely in your statements, all of which have a “holier-than-thou” air about them. To put it in simpler terms, you come across as a dick."

Maybe he is using the words of other people. Maybe those are his. I don't know. But, though my response was stern, I was careful in my wording (and looked it over again before sending it), making sure that I wasn't burning any bridges. Because quite frankly, I'm 19 years old, and though I really did want to let loose my own insults and maybe even add a "fork you", I know that even if this did blow over, those comments would supercede his threats and insults and ruin my credibility.

This really did agitate me when I first heard of it. Heck, I think I might have even gone through the Five Stages of Grief, now I think of it. But that nice comment on Facebook by a friend helped cheer me up. If he actually does go ahead and ban me, I'll know it's for unjust reasons (and hey, maybe then with nothing left to lose I can really let loose). And if he doesn't ban me...actually I haven't thought about that as much. Hmm. Well, I'll see about that if and when that happens.

Portals wrote:I certainly feel pretty crappy when someone disses one of my comics.

I know that wasn't just directed at me, but I would just like to say that about 8 or 9 out of 10 of your comics are great. That still leaves a few that aren't, or that I don't personally find funny. Though I usually don't say anything about those kinds of comics these days, or besides commenting on the comic I start directly in on the thread conversation, but the times I do say something about a comic I didn't enjoy, don't take it personally. I know how much work you put in to some of your comics, and I respect that, but there are some that aren't to my taste, and sometimes I feel like saying that rather than just ignoring it. Also, I at least try to give some reason for why it's not to my taste, so it comes off more constructive than a put-down.
according to the swear filter, kvn8907 wrote:Too bad the sort of get togethers I go to are generally too polite to use the term "fork"


PonderThis wrote:Watch it, slydon, I think he's just trying to butter you up.

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby badplantmommy » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:55 pm

kvn, I too am affected at times by stuff that happens in online communities. While I have never had any significant amount of hostility directed at me, I have often seen (on other forums, not this one) spats occur between some of my online friends over heated issues like politics, as well as seeing one or more well-liked forum members get picked on by trolls. Sometimes, someone I really enjoy reading on a forum leaves in a huff or just disappears. It is not unusual for me to spend time wondering "where did so-and-so go?"

The internet may not be the real world, and often you don't really know who it is you're talking to, but sometimes a forum can be like a family. I have made some good friends on the cat board I've been on for 3 1/2 years, and a few on the organic gardening board I've been on for more than five years.

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Matthew » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:50 am

burp
quite

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Null » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:42 am

Matthew wrote:burp

Amateur.

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Zombie Protestor » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:07 am

Oh. I thought this was going to be a webcam feed of someone assaulting Heart.

Did you maybe mean bleeding heart?
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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby katzenkoenig » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:24 am

Zombie Protestor wrote:Oh. I thought this was going to be a webcam feed of someone assaulting Heart.

Did you maybe mean bleeding heart?



no, he obviously meant Burning Heart
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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Saltine » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:04 am

I think there has been a little bit of banning here, right? Didn't traubster get temporarily banninated due to private messages he sent to chro^H^H^H^Hsomeone?
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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby kvn8907 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:56 pm

Zombie Protestor wrote:Oh. I thought this was going to be a webcam feed of someone assaulting Heart.

Did you maybe mean bleeding heart?


Nope. I meant beating. The original title I was thinking of was "aw darn", but that was kind of lame. So I chose this one, to more represent my emotions on the internet.


He did it. He f'in did it (I very rarely swear, but even though I'm in the mood now, this is spamusement after all, and swears are frowned upon. Wait, does this still have a swear filter?) He rickin'-frackin' banned me.

I know I said that I was calm yesterday, but burning rage welled up in me when I realized I'd been banned from the group. I let loose. I finally sent him a truely insulting message. Maybe I've burned my bridge now, but then, with the way he treated me, I felt justified.

It's amazing the outpouring of support I've gotten from the group. A lot of people think it's really unfair and overblown. Also, I posted the entire message conversation with him in a note (then sent it to all the group members who are my Facebook friends). Perhaps that will reflect badly on me, since now everyone knows exactly what I said, but then, the things Jimmie said were much worse.

Usually, if I've had trouble with something on the internet before, I've had to deal with it completely alone. It's almost strange now, to be unjustly banned from a group and get an actual outpouring of support, heck, it's almost strange for anyone else to care.

I hope I get unbanned, but Jimmie closed communications. He probably won't even respond to the message I sent him, and though I'm friends with some of the other admins, he's more or less the "main" one, and though I've asked a couple to talk to him, I doubt if that will convince him. Plus, though I was neutral in my thoughts of him before this, I think now I'll probably always dislike him, even if he or someone else does unban me, no matter what happens.

Saltine wrote:I think there has been a little bit of banning here, right? Didn't traubster get temporarily banninated due to private messages he sent to chro^H^H^H^Hsomeone?


Who's that?
*looks him up on the Wiki*
Oh. He hasn't actually posted here since April 2008. Is that in any way related to banning, or simply a product of Spamusement rot like a lot of users get (where they suddenly leave and never return)?

Also, who IS the moderator on this forum? I mean, there are a lot of people with multiples of thousands of posts.
*looks at own post counter for once*
WOW! :shock: For some reason, I never really looked at that. I've been on here longer than I thought.
according to the swear filter, kvn8907 wrote:Too bad the sort of get togethers I go to are generally too polite to use the term "fork"


PonderThis wrote:Watch it, slydon, I think he's just trying to butter you up.

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Nik » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:13 pm

kvn8907 wrote:Also, who IS the moderator on this forum? I mean, there are a lot of people with multiples of thousands of posts.



Kvn, I mentioned that in my post earlier in this thread, maybe you missed it.
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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Skimba » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:35 pm

kvn8907 wrote:Also, who IS the moderator on this forum?

I really didn't mean to click on this thread.
I have not read it excpet Nik's last post.
I just wanted to say to the above...*sigh* :roll:
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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby kvn8907 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:38 pm

Nik wrote:
kvn8907 wrote:Also, who IS the moderator on this forum? I mean, there are a lot of people with multiples of thousands of posts.



Kvn, I mentioned that in my post earlier in this thread, maybe you missed it.

Oops, sorry. When I got the thread notification, I missed that post. Also, since my message was long, and the two are only about 15 minutes apart, it's quite possible that it might have been posted while I was writing.

Also, now that I read that, that's a nice philosophy. What I'm seeing in my Facebook group is quite a bit of spite, and abusing administrative power based on grudges. People can get in arguments on forums, and they can get heated, and that's fine. But when people start banning other people based on that, and using the term "troll" just because they don't like them (in my view, a troll is someone who doesn't even care about a forum, and isn't invested at all in it besides posting nasty comments), that can start a slippery slope of abuse where a forum's composed more of people that rub the admins the right way than people actually interested in the forum's topic. That philosophy could come back and bite you when dealing with a real troll (not just a spambot that starts spouting information on Acacia Berries), but as far as I'm concerned, better to let 10 guilty people not be banned than let 1 be banned unjustly.
according to the swear filter, kvn8907 wrote:Too bad the sort of get togethers I go to are generally too polite to use the term "fork"


PonderThis wrote:Watch it, slydon, I think he's just trying to butter you up.

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby EvilJekyll » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:12 pm

Nik wrote:
kvn8907 wrote:Also, who IS the moderator on this forum? I mean, there are a lot of people with multiples of thousands of posts.



Kvn, I mentioned that in my post earlier in this thread, maybe you missed it.

Also.
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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby kzager » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:14 pm

kvn8907 wrote:That philosophy could come back and bite you when dealing with a real troll (not just a spambot that starts spouting information on Acacia Berries), but as far as I'm concerned, better to let 10 guilty people not be banned than let 1 be banned unjustly.

Real trolls you just gotta fireball and magic missile the poopcakes out of.
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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby kvn8907 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:30 pm

kzager wrote:
kvn8907 wrote:That philosophy could come back and bite you when dealing with a real troll (not just a spambot that starts spouting information on Acacia Berries), but as far as I'm concerned, better to let 10 guilty people not be banned than let 1 be banned unjustly.

Real trolls you just gotta fireball and magic missile the poopcakes out of.



What if the trolls are hiding...in the darkness? Where will you cast your magic missile then, hmm?
according to the swear filter, kvn8907 wrote:Too bad the sort of get togethers I go to are generally too polite to use the term "fork"


PonderThis wrote:Watch it, slydon, I think he's just trying to butter you up.

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Skimba » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:39 pm

Into the darkness.
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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Null » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:05 pm

One thing that should be said--even if you disagree with a forum owner's views, think he's an idiot, abuses his power, etc etc, it is still nonetheless HIS forum, and he can ban people based on momentary whims if he so chooses. The fact that it isn't fair isn't really the point.

StevenF, Nik and Ponder have exercised great judgment in allowing us the lattitude they do. But that could change at any time and we will just have to accept it.

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby kvn8907 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:24 pm

Null wrote:One thing that should be said--even if you disagree with a forum owner's views, think he's an idiot, abuses his power, etc etc, it is still nonetheless HIS forum, and he can ban people based on momentary whims if he so chooses. The fact that it isn't fair isn't really the point.

StevenF, Nik and Ponder have exercised great judgment in allowing us the lattitude they do. But that could change at any time and we will just have to accept it.


I disagree. With power comes responsibility. Just because you have the power to do something doesn't give you the right to do it. In the same way a person with a gun could shoot someone, as that is within their power, that power doesn't make the shooting right. It's the same story with admins/moderators on forums. Just because they have that power, and CAN exercize it any way they see fit, doesn't mean they SHOULD do that. So, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "The fact that it isn't fair isn't really the point."
according to the swear filter, kvn8907 wrote:Too bad the sort of get togethers I go to are generally too polite to use the term "fork"


PonderThis wrote:Watch it, slydon, I think he's just trying to butter you up.

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Binkatron5000 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:26 pm

Skimba wrote:Into the darkness.

:lol:

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Portals » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:22 pm

kvn8907 wrote:I disagree. With power comes responsibility. Just because you have the power to do something doesn't give you the right to do it. In the same way a person with a gun could shoot someone, as that is within their power, that power doesn't make the shooting right. It's the same story with admins/moderators on forums. Just because they have that power, and CAN exercize it any way they see fit, doesn't mean they SHOULD do that. So, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "The fact that it isn't fair isn't really the point."

It's the internet. People can do whatever the hell they want in the section of the internet that they own.

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Nyperold » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:22 pm

Well... in a way, they make their own bed. Admins who abuse their power can easily find themselves without membership. It's not like a government over a country, where it's a real hardship to pick up and move; people can very easily stop coming. So yes, they have the legal right to administrate as they see fit, but if it's not a fit way to administrate, then there are some natural consequences, such as people leaving who weren't actually banned.

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Re: Beating heart on the internet

Postby Null » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:43 pm

kvn8907 wrote:In the same way a person with a gun could shoot someone, as that is within their power, that power doesn't make the shooting right. It's the same story with admins/moderators on forums.

There is one HUGE difference. Shooting someone is illegal. Banning someone from a forum is not.

I agree with Nyperold, that an admin who sets up a site should be responsible, but there are no laws in place that say it must be so.

Incidentally, my statement a few posts above was not meant to condone poor admin behavior, and more than my saying "Volcanoes can kill people" means I approve of that. It's just a fact of life. Being a jerk on the internet is incredibly easy on the internet, as opposed to real life where there are real-life consquences.


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